I have an incredible dad, he is this short east Indian man who is proud to be Indian...overwhelmingly proud! When I was a teenager he went through a stage where everything was Indian. I would be watching "Much On Demand" after school and he would walk in and say " Did you know music videos were invented in India?" He would smile, shake his head side to side as most Indian people do and then would take a sip of his steaming, hot, homemade Chai before vanishing off to his basement office.
Other times, my father would hear my sister talk about fashion, and without missing a beat, my mom would always bring up her desire to have a nose ring. Mohny Singh's right eyebrow of course would go up and he would then interject into the conversation. "Did you know Indians are the ones that made nose rings fashionable or as they say now...cool?" After his declaration he would go on eating his meal or reading the paper like nothing had even been mentioned. It drove us crazy... still does!!! To my dad though, everything is Indian (or at least was invented there).
I have another family that I am a part of that for years was even more extreme than my dad about where they came from and who they were. This family is called Pentecostalism. When I was 8 my parents started going to a Pentecostal church just outside of Montreal. This was the first experience I had ever had with Christianity (other than going to mass once in a while). At first the whole thing really scared me. People singing songs about blood washing them and something about snow. Folks raising their hands and swaying like they were in a trance of some sort, a preacher spitting and sweating like he was mad at all of us and going to the front to get prayed for and having people shouting "Ba Ram U's" at you. For an 8 year old, the whole thing was pretty intense.
As the years went by though, I started getting used to it. By the time I hit my preteens I was convinced that you weren't a Christian unless you were a Pentecostal. I heard various sermons that would emphasize the importance of being filled and baptized with the Spirit, and unless you spoke in tongues, you were unable to live out a true Christian life. I honestly remember thinking that the majority of Christian rock bands were all Pentecostal and that Catholics weren't going to heaven.
For anyone who grew up in the movement during the 70's 80's and 90's, being Pentecostal was the hippest thing you could do with your life. We were growing, Pentecostal youth ministries across the country were exploding and our Bible Colleges were pumping out huge amounts of young Pentecostal leaders. Things were good. I think they were so good, we let ourselves get a little arrogant. We had this attitude that we were the only real show in town and that if you weren't a part of us you were like second class Christians. For a long time, that ethos rang true in many of the events I attended as I grew up.
When it came to the Holy Spirit, I think many Pentecostals were convinced that we had the market pinned on that one. The attitude was very much "if you don't experience the Spirit like we do, then you didn't really experience the Spirit at all." And for years, me and many of my young friends actually believed that. It was almost like the movement was saying "everything is Pentecostal."
I remember judging the Christianity of many people in my high school as non existent because they were not Pentecostal. I would invite friends that were a part of other denominations to Pentecostal events in our district and at my church hoping that they would truly get "saved" and experience the Pentecostal Spirit! I had no concept that their expression of Christianity was valid and good. Sad really.
My "everything is Pentecostal" attitude really started changing in my second year of Bible college. As students we had to be a part of an outside ministry so as to meet the requirements of our college. Myself and a few good friends decided to be a part of a ministry called "Potter's Place Mission" on the East side of Vancouver. This area is one of the poorest and most drug ridden parts of North America and I was convinced when we signed up that we were going to save the world from themselves.
As we began to get to know many of the ministry staff at the mission, I realized something pretty incredible...none of them were Pentecostal. All of them were a part of interdenominational or main line denominational churches. To be honest it floored me. How could people who weren't Pentecostal and who hadn't experienced the "Pentecostal Spirit" pray with such authority, love so recklessly and be so connected to the Spirit of God?
One time, a person on our team was playing guitar for one of the services we were holding at the mission. He felt in his spirit that there was some kind of demonic force there in the room. He prayed " God, in the name of Jesus if there is anything here that would try to come against what your Spirit is doing in these people, I ask that you would reveal it in Jesus name." All of a sudden a guy jumps up out of his seat, looks my friend right in the eye and gives him the 2 finger salute. He starts screaming these profane sentences at the top of his lungs and disrupts the whole service. All of us Pentecostal guys just stand there in shock. There was no class in our Pentecostal college that got us ready for those situations, we were like a deer caught in the headlights of an oncoming car.
Almost immediately, one of the pastors of the mission recognized the demon possessed guy. He got up and with all the authority in the world starts walking towards him. The possessed man looks at this small Korean pastor, his mouth drops in fear and he books it out of there. The funny part was that the pastor was so intent on casting out this demon he starts running after the man and follows him into the streets of east Vancouver. Brilliant!
That night for me everything changed. This small Korean pastor was not a Pentecostal. He was a part of a mainline denomination who expresses dependency on the Spirit in a very different way than we Pentecostals do and yet...He understood the Pentecostal message better than we did. I realized that night that the body of Christ may be diverse and unique but we are all connected by two main things: Christ's death and resurrection and by the Spirit of Christ. I realized that before I am Pentecostal, I am a Christian who is but one small part of the greater body of Christ. I realized that Pentecostalism is only one outlet of how a person can express their Christianity and that all outlets (denomination allegiances, expressions and distinctives) are all valid and actually showcase the unifying essentials of Christendom.
I always thought that Pentecostalism had chosen me, but over the last few years I've come to the conclusion that Pentecostalism is the outlet I have chosen to express my Christianity. For me, I now know that Pentecostals don't have the market cornered when it comes to the Holy Spirit and to think our pneumatology is crystallized and completed is going to be our very downfall as a fellowship. As a young movement of only 104 years here in North America, we have a lot to discover and learn about the Spirit, and I think we can learn a lot from our brothers and sisters that have chosen different outlets of Christian expression.
When I read this first statement from Dr. Lee, that new Pentecostals are "Those who do not claim exclusivity of the Holy Spirit to a particular denomination or church," I am overcome because for years now, this is exactly how I've been feeling about the whole thing. I know many older leaders will say that we as a movement have never claimed exclusivity to the Holy Spirit. And sure, maybe not officially or maybe not in our doctrinal stances or in denomination statements...but we have and are doing it through the attitude of arrogance we had and exude in some instances. I really believe that to go forward as a movement, we need to make this statement part of our overall ethos. I believe that this is happening and that many Pentecostals feel like this first statement truly reflects their heart, as it should.
Everything in Christendom may not be Pentecostal...but it is still beautiful.
As a Pentecostal what have been your experiences in this specific regard? How do you feel Dr.Lee's first statement reflects where Pentecostalism is going ?
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I grew up in the Presbyterian church, and was a contributing part of the "legalists egotistics" as others called us. In my late teens and early twenties, I grew very hungry for more of God. I was convinced that there had to be more, because I knew that I was not living the abundant life that Jesus had promised.
So I started looking around. Books have always been a love of mine and two in particular: "They speak with other Tongues" by John Sherrill and "Nine O'Clock in the Morning" by Dennis Bennett really caught my attention. They talked about walking the Spirit and speaking in tongues. I devoured everything that I could get my hands on about all of this, and in talking with other people, soon realized that the "people in the know", the ones who "had caught the Spirit" were some weirdos called Pentecostals.
Well, I investigated further. I took in a few of their services and saw all the things that Josh had mentioned, but felt this pervading sense as well of elite-ism in these churches...the sense that they had the "IN" way to God and only they had IT. But these two books were an enigma to me. Because both authors were from the Anglican church, the "frozen chosen" as we called them, and they were even more legalistic, rules oriented and ritualistic that I was.
So what had happened here? Upon further reading and talking, I soon realized that God had graciously poured his Spirit out on a denomination other than the Pentas- sort of what happened to startle Peter when Gods spirit lammed into Cornelius too.
I think God is looking for willing hearts; desperate people who are asking "Will the real God please stand up". And then He pours into them, so that they in turn can reach others.
I am reminded of 2 very old ladies in the Church of Scotland in the island of Mull in the Western Hebrides. One was 81; the other 83. One day, upset over the lack of commitment to spiritual things that they saw in their neighbors, they decide to set a certain time out of each day to pray that God would move.
They could only manage 5 minutes per day. Simple heart-felt prayers that God would make a difference. Within 1 year, the greatest revival that Scotland has ever seen in its' history broke out and over 150,000 Scots got saved and/or filled with the spirit. This is even more remarkable considering that most towns in the Islands held maybe 40 persons; that the message had to spread word of mouth.
Anyway, God will use whatever is willing.
I grew up Baptist. Our theme song seemed to be "My hope is built on nothing less than Scofield's Notes and Scripture Press..." Dispensationalist to the core, believing that if you weren't Baptist, you weren't Christian and that Pentecostals were demon-possessed because the "sign gifts" ended in 70 AD, and everyone knows that Satan is into cheap parlor tricks. I guess elitism isn't restricted to just one denomination huh.
So when I read Charles Finney's autobiography - and saw how his life was radically changed by a personal encounter with God subsequent to his salvation, I sat up and took notice. I mentioned it to my crazy husband who had the gall to tell me that the charismatics had something worth investigating. He gave me a copy of Nine O'Clock in the Morning. Before long I had devoured it, They Speak with Other Tongues by John Sherrill, and something called Let the Tide Come In by C. Ernest Tatham, a Brethren minister who authored the "Road to Emmaus" Bible correspondence courses I took as a teen. I respected him a LOT and he addressed every single one of my objections.
But when I finally embraced the baptism in the Spirit and began to walk in that daily kingdom adventure, I was treated like a heretic by my family and the church I had grown up in. I learned eventually to shut up and let God work - hard lessons but necessary. Slowly my parents and siblings (well, most of them) began to understand that I didn't consider myself "better" than they were, that I'd just found some neat tools for living the way Jesus intended.
At the same time, I started learning about what life was like in Pentecost. In the nitty-gritty, in relationship with Pentecostals themselves. And I found that although there was love, glory, and joy, there was also much of the same sort of elitism I had so despised in the Baptist church. "Have you got it yet?" was something I heard often, spoken to people who were made to feel like 2nd class Christians if they didn't speak in tongues. That was back then - in the early 80's to mid-90's.
The face of the denomination (for it is no longer a movement) is changing somewhat. Younger Pentecostals don't seem quite as cocky and self-assured as some of those other folks were. Their theological world is far less certain. Tolerance - that horrible evil in Christendom (who knows what it will lead to?) is starting to be talked about. There is starting to be room in more and more people's theology for the idea that Christianity is a multi-faceted jewel of which Pentecostalism is only one facet. The main thing is to keep the Main Thing the main thing... Jesus.
Yes, we can worship God with other believers no matter what the name is on the plaque outside. We are slowly learning what Jesus meant when He said, "He who is not against us is on our side." God is pulling together the most unlikely and eclectic band of people from all backgrounds, socio-economic strata, and life experiences to show the world that we CAN love each other, that we CAN make a difference in our world in spite of our differences of opinion, and that we CAN agree on what is important. It's high time.
I have experienced this and projected this attitude as well. On both sides. I have been arrogantly charismatic (I'm not pentecostal by the text book definition) as well as arrogantly 'intellectual' (as in faith based on knowledge and study rather than experiences with the Spirit).What I am learning is that everyone can be arrogantly religious. And like Josh says, anyone of any branch of the faith has access to the Spirit...I believe everyone PERIOD has access to the Spirit. He poured it out on ALL people. Christians may have a clearer understanding of what it's all about and have a stronger framework for properly dealing with it, but there isn't one exclusive club that has a corner on the Spirit. Kinda like trying to hold water in a colander.
Hello everyone, especially Lindsey. This is Samuel Lee. I just want to thank you for the steps you are taking to make this message spread. Pentecostalism has to go through a change if we want to play a role in the global Christianity. If Pentecostalism do not go through this positive change, am afraid we will fall in the same mistakes Roman Catholic Church fell in, 500 years ago...
I thank you and eagerly waiting for the comments of others and learning from you...This is great.
Samuel Lee
BTW try also the 95 Concerns of Samuel Lee about the church and condition of Christianity. You can find a link on my blog...
www.samlee.org
With every move of God, i.e the Reformation, Azusa, Latter Rain, Brownsville, God revived lost components of true Biblical, early Church. With every revival we come closer to the Book of Acts Church, which was God's intention for the boy of Christ.
Pentecostalism is the closest to Book of Acts Church than any other mainline denomination.
We are not more elite or better than any other denomination, but I am very weary that my generation of Pentecostal leaders are letting go of foundemental Pentecostalism. We are striving to be considered "evangelical" and we want so much to "fit in" with other streams of Christianity. In doing so, we will lose our Pentecostal distinctives.
This comment comes from Trent Antle, a pastor and friend. He was unable to post his comment, so here it is...
We have to be very careful what we call pentecostal and what is truly and authentically biblical. We know Christ's life (kingdom focused), His death and resurrection all pertain to the WORD( Bible) that became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus was the glory of God revealed.
The essence of Old Testament scripture is to point to the suffering Christ Prophesied in Isaiah who would come and fulfill old testament anti-types. Remember, our mandate wasn't to preserve denomination while ignorantly thinking that our denominational expression was somehow superior to another. It's a call to be Spiritual and express life in living biblically. The million dollar question is not are we pentecostal, but are we fully and truly biblically sound in our interpretation and of His mission for us in representing HIM.
Pentecostalism is not something we have to use our man power and manipulation to preserve because we're "afraid of losing our identity" as Christians. I'm more concerned that we are focused on STYLE Pentecostalism instead of SUBSTANCE Pentecostalism. Are we growing and what are we growing into?
My question for Mark Raymer (hey Mark!) is this:
"If you are concerned with losing true biblical components of the early church, why not call yourself "biblical Church" instead of Pentecostal? Isn't it suppose to be Bible first and denomination second? What do you think the early Church would call themselves if they existed today?
Hey Trent...
It is definitely Bible-first and denomination second. I do not get to hung over titles or labels because generally you don't label yourself, instead someone else labels you. For example, the early Church did not start calling themselves "Christians", it was those outside the circle looking in.
I am saying that true Pentecostalism is the closest expression to the book of Acts Church. I think we have alot to learn, and I do believe more revelations are coming with the next wave of revival. But I think we should be proud (in a positive way) to be Pentecostal. Why are we always looking at as many ways as possible to move away from our fundementals instead of embracing them?
To the point of 'being careful what to term pentecostal' - I agree because I am not pentecostal, I am a charismatic which is similar but not exactly the same. Pentecostal traditions tend to have their own denominations with particular doctrines, especially around the manifestation of speaking in tongues, and a heavy emphasis on the Spirit Gifts (Assemblies of God, for example is a popular pentecostal denomination) whereas charismatics are individuals or groups who believe in the gifts of the Spirit, often walk in them, but integrate them among other practices and traditions. Charismatics also tend to stay in their own denominations (You can find Charismatic Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, etc). Then you have the non-denominational groups like Vineyard which I would term 'charismatic' but not pentecostal due to an acceptance/encouragement of the gifts, but not a doctrinal emphasis on them. Hope all that makes sense. It's a fine line, but there is a distinction.
If I am off base anywhere let me know....
I just wanted to pick up on something Mark said (Hi Mark!) regarding Pentecostalism and evangelicalism.
I think there has been a shift toward evangelicalism in general in the Pentecostal movement, at least in North America. This has happened gradually over the last century or so. The AG became a member of the National Association of Evangelicals back in 1943, and in Canada, a Pentecostal became the first chair of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada in 1964. For better or for worse, the PAOC decided to align with evangelicalism. (They could have gone other routes I suppose, since many of the early pentecostals came from more liturgical/mainline backgrounds.) So I think it's right to suggest we've been trying to fit in with evangelicalism. (Being ostracized from so many churches in the first place may have fueled this desire to fit in.)
And I think that has been to our detriment in some areas. I think there is definite validity in holding onto our Pentecostal identity. It's only as we have a firm grasp on our identity that we can have genuine discussion with other Christians, and just other people in general. No one wants to talk with someone who is just trying to "fit in with the popular kids."
That said, I'm not sure the response should be to go back a hundred years to how Pentecostals thought of themselves then. Our Pentecostal foundation is just that - a foundation. It's something to build on. But we need walls, and a roof. We need to repair the cracks where there has been shoddy theological workmanship. Some rooms need major renovation. Let's tear out some of that ugly wallpaper. And I think we need to undertake this renovation as Pentecostals (not as evangelicals per se). We've learned a lot and we have much to learn. We might need some new dialogue partners. I want to be Pentecostal. But I think in some areas we might need to rethink what that means so we can move forward.
Hi Helen Ann,
Yes, you're right with the distinctions within the broader Pentecostal movement. For the most part, we're talking out of our experience with the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC), which would be considered "classical Pentecostalism," and which is a denomination with its own theological distinctives.
Of course, we welcome all Pentecostals/charismatics etc. to the discussion!
Excellent thoughts!
Lindsey, I particularly liked your comment in response to Mark. I think a question we need to ask from the outset is: do we need a renovation, or a revolution? Can we change the outward expressions of our Pentecostal experience without changing the underlying theology? How many of our evangelical-inspired walls and doors can we knock out without going right back to the foundation?
As for my own experience, I had never heard of pentecostalism until about a year before I went to Summit. I learned about pentecostal/charismatic theology in that setting, and left thinking that, while there are pockets of charismatic Catholics and Anglicans out there, everyone else didn't care much about the work of the Spirit, much less the experience of the Spirit.
Now in a non-denominational Seminary, I'm learning more about the theology of other traditions. I'm discovering more and more that, at least in theology, we Pentecostals didn't really add much to the conversation. Anglican theology, for example, has been quietly affirming most of our points for centuries, and the ongoing work of the Spirit (if not the outward expression, e.g. in tongues) is assumed rather than shouted about. Other traditions have different understandings of how the Spirit works that are much less individual-focused, much more community-focused (Catholic theology does this well). The Orthodox Church has some fascinating and powerful notions of the work of the Spirit that we could learn a lot from! To a large extent, learning more about the pneumatology of these oldest of Christian denominations has me asking the question: for all that the Pentecostal church is the fastest growing movement in the world today, have we really contributed much in the way of theology? Do we rely on our distinctive outward expressions, and do these expressions have a strong enough theological foundation to stand the test of time?
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